This span table is to the format and methodology given in BS 5268-7.1. Dead load for residential construction is generally considered to be about 10 pounds per square foot. Can I use a 2x8 for a ceiling joist and rafters on a 16 from diy.stackexchange.com. Joists are technically beams that typically spans relatively short distances compared to beams and are made of wood, steel, or engineered wood or lumber. Joist span table - use these span tables to determine maximum spans based on the species and grade of lumber, the size of the floor joists, the spacing of the floor joists, and either of these two common design scenarios: You must determine your actual design requirements based on your local building code for allowable live load, dead load, and deflection. As an example, consider a room with a floor area of 10 feet by 11 feet . The spacing between joists and rafters determines the floor, ceiling, or roof area a structural member must support. Max. How far can you span a 28 floor joist:- as per general rules and guideline, southern yellow pine, 28 (2-by-8) floor joists graded as #1 allows joist spans up to 16 feet 6 inches for a live load of 30 pounds per square foot when spaced 12 inches apart, 15 feet 0 inch for 16 inch spacing and 13 feet 1 inches for 24 inch spacing. Home > Joist Span Calculator Calculated allowable properties are based upon AISI S100-07, North American Specification for the Design of Cold-Formed Steel Structural Members. For headers, the maximum span is 11 2. Flaws in a board can make the board unusable as a joist board. 210. In general, a 28 will span 1.5 x 8, so 12-feet. The pitch of the roof would be about a 4 pitch. In the construction world, span is a word used to mean the linear distance a board, joist, rafter, or roof must bridge or cover without bending or requiring support. Max. The strength of a given joist board is most dramatically affected by the board's top-to-bottom width. Yet larger is not always better when builders are constructing a home or adding a room addition. The table has two column sections one for joists without a cantilever and one for joists with a cantilever. Joist span is also governed by the weight placed on the floor. Joists & Rafters Tables listing Maximum Spans for Southern Pine joists and rafters are detailed below. Since the example house we are designing for is 12 feet wide, we need to find, in the floor joist span table, a joist size and centering that can span 12' or wider. http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/oldhouse/msg1021090512629.html, A Look at State Premiers New Heat Pump Water Heater, Indoor Air Quality and Building Diagnostics. Span calculations derived from the American Wood Council's "Span Calculator" Program, available at www.awc.org. Copyright 2009-2022 The-House-Plans-Guide.com, Table valid for No. Headers, based on building width, number of floors, and exposure may span from 3-1 to 11-2. This table uses commonly available UK regularised timber depths. Without properly calculated and built joist spans, permits don't get issued and buildings don't get built. The above spans are based on American Softwood Lumber standard sizes. To calculate maximum joist spans using different design criteria (loading, spacing, grade, etc. There would be interior framing inside the addition, but there would be an area of about 15 x 16 that would be clear. This gives you 3. 40lbs live 10 lbs dead (living areas) 12" O.C. The IRC 2018 does not specify a maximum span for pergola beams. 2x8 2x10 2x12 2x6 2x8 2x 10 12 16 24 12 16 24 12 16 24 12 16 24 15-6 13-11 11-4 13-6 12-3 10-0 17-10 15-6 12-8 . To learn about designing with beam span tables, continue on with the next part of Residential Structural Design: Part 3: Designing with Wood Beam Span Tables. Compared to their slimmer decendants, these beefier joists can certainly carry more weight over longer spans. A 28 roof rafter, like any other structural member, will have a span based on various factors. CanadianRockies said: I'm hoping to use 4x4 (nominal) wood beams as living room floor joists, but none of the online span tables/calculators seem to handle 4x lumber. According to Weyerhaeuser, its Framing Series 2x8s will support a total load of 799PLF (pounds per linear foot) when supported every 4, 211PLF when spanning 8, and 93PLF with a clear span of 12. In general, cantilevers should not extend beyond of the span of the joists themselves. Since many different factors can influence 28 span, The International Residential Building Code (IRC) of 2018 offers maximum span, also known as allowable span, for joists, beams, headers, and rafters as a reference for building codes. Floor or deck joists: The notion that how long a 28 can span depends a lot on the load it carries. Deck joists come in dimensional lumber lengths from 8 to 16 feet. As a general rule of thumb for beam sizing for a deck (figure that's more load than a pergola roof), if you're supporting joists that span 12 ft (almost your size), then a doubled 2x12 beam itself can span 12' (the number of ft of span = the doubled beam nominal depth in inches). Southern yellow pine is strongest species of wood that can span more distance compared to other species of wood. To measure span, you should start at the center of one support point to the center of the next support point. While there are maximum allowable spans, they are determined by various factors. Engineering ToolBox - Resources, Tools and Basic Information for Engineering and Design of Technical Applications! Joists & Rafters Simplified maximum span tables for selected visual and mechanical grades of Southern Pine lumber in sizes 24 thru 212. An actual 2x10 (2x10) deflects .0064 under the same loading conditions. Southern yellow pine and Douglas fir have high bending strength. R802.4 Allowable Ceiling Joist Spans. 28. It will also increase by around 25 percent if you double the thickness to 48. In many circumstances, 16 inches would be your standard spacing for shed floor joist, but this is just a rough guideline. Floor joist cost floor joist cost esensehowto com floor joist cost esensehowto com floor joist. The use refers to the way a 28 is positioned and if it is working as a beam, floor joist, ceiling joist, rafter, or header. Lumber is divided into different grades based on the number and location of knots and other imperfections in the wood, and its bending strength. 2. Their function is similar as beams, except floor joists are supported by wall, foundations, or beams framing. Depending on various factors, the maximum span for a 28 floor joist is 16' 6". Simplified maximum span tables for selected visual and mechanical grades of Southern Pine lumber in sizes 24 thru 212. Still, another option is laminated veneer lumber, LVL, which has a span provided by the manufacturer that generally lands between 12 and 15. Grades of wood classifications include appearance (how pretty regardless of strength), non-stress (not for structural requirements), and stress grades (for structural use). Lally Column vs Jack Post: Whats the Difference? So, with all these factors, it is best to start with the use. Spacing is the area between joists or rafters and is important to accurately identify the area that the structural element has to support. Now, let's make the house wider so that it is necessary to have a center support for the floor joists. The span for a 28 floor joist can range from 7 1 to 16 6. These applications will - due to browser restrictions - send data between your browser and our server. In this guide, well explain what span means in terms of construction, factors that impact the span, and how much weight a 28 can support. Ive never seen even a meager attempt at a span table for actual size lumber. If you have full-dimension lumber it is about 1.33 times stronger by being 2 inches instead of 1.5 inches (goes directly with thickness), and about 1.34 times for being 8 inches vs. 7.25 (goes as the cube of height)." Generally, Douglas Fir is very strong and will span farther than SPF and Southern Pine if the other factors are identical. It also offers only span for grade #2 wood. Although the rule of thumb is 1.5 times the planks thickness in feet, the distance a 28 will span depends upon a variety of factors species, space between boards, moisture content, use or application, plus live and dead load requirements. 1 and No. Duration of load will not change the E value. Look for a stamp on the joist that indicates the lumber's species and grade. If you are just starting out, you might want to start at our previous page, residential structural design page which explains basic house structure. Maximum floor joist span for No. It's been published by several publishing houses, including The Taunton Press. 1 and No.2 Grade of Douglas fir and larch, Table valid for No. A load also has to account for snow, ice, and other factors that can add weight to the rafters or joists. At the bottom of this page you'll find a joist span calculator. Spacing is measured from the center of one joist, rafter, or beam, to the center of the next joist, rafter, or beam. It can make a huge difference with the same 28 component when used for a roof rafter versus using it as a floor joist. Floor Joist Spans for Common Lumber Species. These points could be a wall, ridge, beam, or any other structural support. 2x8 14'-2" 2x10 18'-0" #2 Y.P. A nominal 2x10 (1.5x9.25) deflects .009 inches under a 300 kg centered point load with both ends of the beam fixed in all directions. Live load is weight of furniture, wind, snow and more. A 28 will adequately support a dead load of 20 psf and a live load of 40 psf depending on some factors, including allowable span. The narrow double lines show the floor joist themselves. The problem is, inspectors (and many structural engineers, sadly) treat these as nominal framing. The International Residential Building Code (IRC) of 2018 identifies the spans for joists, beams, headers, rafters, and roofs. Live Load 60 lbs/ft2 (2873 N/m2) Example: The highlighted cell (below) shows that a 2" x 6" Douglas Fir joist, with a grade of #2, spaced 24" Step 3: Toenail the joist to the rim joist. Invert this and you have that the real 2x10 is approximately 140% as stiff as the smaller beam. Western red cedar, Eastern white pine, and ponderosa pine have low bending strength. Conclusions:- For example, for a 28 with a span of 12ft, you would divide 12 by 4. A rule of thumb is 1.5 times a joist's depth but in feet when spaced at 16" centers. The widths vary from 72mm to 147mm and can also be. Document ID #: tj-4000. Other spacings are used for non-dimensional materials such as engineered or metal members. 2x8 #2 SPF (spruce-pine-fir) will span 114 2x8 #2 HFir (hemlock-fir) will span 120 For typical 16" o.c. Hemlock, spruce, and redwood have medium bending strength. Here is a graph that shows the different joist size and spacing from least expensive to most expensive. Popular structural woods include Southern Pine, Douglas Fir, Hem-Fir, Redwood, and Spruce-Pine-Fir (SPF). L/360 deflection. Finally, a single deck beam has a maximum span of 5' 11" and double maxes out at 8' 9". However, if you double the width, then the span can increase significantly. Bedroom areas are sized for 30 lb live load plus 10 lb of dead load (20 lb for ceiling). For the same size floor joist and spacing, if you need to reach about 13 feet, you can use a stronger wood like No. For example, a joist made from doubled 2 x 6s can span a distance about 25 percent more than a single 2 x 6, but a 2 x 12 can span about 80 percent more than a 2 x 6, even though it has the same amount of wood as a doubled 2 x 6. A 28 will support a dead load of 20psf and a live load of 40psf resulting in a total load of 60psf. Generally, a 2x8 or a 2x10 floor joist is the most popular option. Overview Resources provide a simplified system to determine allowable joist and rafter spans in one- and two-family dwellings, and the companion supplements for tabulating allowable bending and modulus of elasticity design values for visually graded and mechanically graded dimension lumber. The above spans are based on American Softwood Lumber standard sizes. For other grades and species and for other loading conditions, refer to the AF&PA; Span Tables for Joists and Rafters. Compared to their slimmer decendants, these beefier joists can certainly carry more weight over longer spans. Using this rule, a 26 will span 9 feet, a 28 will span 12 feet, and a 210 will span 15 feet. IRC 2003 #3 Y.P. 2x12 2x6 2x8 2x10 2x12 note: I was looking for this information myself. In my case, the sisters are select structural, and the original joists . on-center spacing. Engineered Lumber; Products. Avoid using 3- or 4-grade lumber for structural framing applications. However, you can double the floor or deck joists to increase the span. AddThis use cookies for handling links to social media. A rafter of the same material, though, may span 14-5 at 12oc, 13-1 at 16oc, 12-4 at 19.2oc, and 11-0 at 24oc. 1 ft = 0.3048 m 2 or better (treated for weather and/or ground exposure.). The floor joist spacing is the distance between the centers of any two installed joists. The distance a 28 can span depends on species, grade, purpose, location, loads, and several other factors. Southern Pine is stronger with a longer span than SPF, but SPF is popular because it is strong for its weight. Grade 1 lumber have higher strength than other grade Lumber due to fewer knots. Joist spans range from 7-1 to 16-6 when all factors are considered. The house will be 52 ft by 32 feet. 16" O.C. Other common designations are: The stamp shown above indicates the lumber grade is standard or better (STAND & BTR) this is the same as number 3 or stud. For supporting the roof and ceiling plus a clear span floor, the range starts at 27 and goes up to 3 6 for a single header and 3 6 to 5 for a double header. O.C. 2X8 24"OC 2X6 16"OC 2X8 24"OC 2X8 16"OC 2X10 24"OC 2X8 16"OC 2X10 24"OC 2X8 16"OC 2X10 24"OC 2x8 12"OC . Before jumping into the span tables, let's first consider wood species and wood grades. Data taken from CMHC Wood-Frame House Construction Tables Listed are 46 tables based on common loading conditions for floor joists, ceiling joists and rafters. For all other applications click here to go the reference in the code book. Catawba County Government. Span is a term for the linear distance that a joist, rafter, or board can cover without bending or breaking without support. Below is a table giving the minimum size floor joists needed for 16 and 24 on center (o.c.) http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/oldhouse/msg1021090512629.html. Illegal Internet copies will be detected by Copyscape. This can help plan the layout for the location of hanging hardware. The 28 Joist & Rafter Spans Table below compares the maximum 28 spans for joists and rafters based on different factors. Standard spacing between floors joist is 16 inches. The loading includes dead load of the weight of the frame structure & fixed weight and live load of People, furniture, appliances and a snow on the roof. The widest span in the floor joist span table in Part 2 of this tutorial module showed that floor joists can span 17'2" if they are 2 X 12s spaced 12" o.c. The complete source for building, designing, and remodeling green homes. Depending on various factors, the maximum span for a 28 floor joist is 16 6. All rights reserved. For an uninhibited area with limited storage, the span for ceiling joints will range from 10 to 21 7. Live load of 30 psf / dead load of 20 psf / and a deflection limit of L/360. Therefore, in colder areas, the live load must be increased up to 70 psf. These resources are referenced in the International Building Code and International Residential Code. Yes the ridge will be centered on the 16' span. Span depends on laminating 2, 3, or 4 2x8s together, and may also require the doubling of jack studs too. University of Tennessee Extension. Knowing the allowable span as well as the factors that can affect it is crucial to building a sturdy structure. True floor joist span calculations can only be made by a structural engineer or contractor. More Important Posts: Rafter, header, and beam spans are also conditional on all factors too. You can span a 2" 8" floor joist as far as 12 feet using No. Ceiling joints have different spans depending on the location. Using a span calculator, you can estimate that for a 15-foot span; you will need 2 by 10 Douglas fir heart joists spaced every 16 inches. Its best to check local building codes or with the experts. I use it all the time. We don't save this data. So the challenge to builders is to choose joists that are appropriate to the load they carry while maximizing space. Copyright 2009-2023 www.mycarpentry.com | Privacy Policy | Contact Us. Joist, rafter, header, and beam spans are important structural factors, so if youre wondering how far can a 28 span without support, were here to help. Lumber is graded for quality. Floor joists shall have a bearing support length of not less than 1 1 / 2 inches (38 mm) for exterior wall supports and . The load refers to the amount that the 28 or other structural component can carry before the integrity is compromised. How far can a double 26 beam span Reading the table, you'll see that 2 X 8s installed 16" apart on center can span 12'4". A #1 Douglas fir-larch rafter at 12 on-center (oc) may span 18-10, at 16oc run 16-2, 19.2oc reach 14-9, and at 24oc bridge 13-2. For an inhabited area without any storage needs, the span ranges from 14 2 to more than 26. You can find out more about our use, change your default settings, and withdraw your consent at any time with effect for the future by visiting Cookies Settings, which can also be found in the footer of the site. (or Standard & Better). Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. a. recognized Span Tables for Joists and Rafters published by the American Wood Council. . Depending on loads and spans, C-Joists are typically spaced at 12", 16", 19.2" or 24" on-center spacing. A variety of factors play into joist span, including but not limited to: distance covered, width and thickness of the joist, type of material, and spacing between the joists. 16" o.c. Copyright 2023 CivilSir How far can you span a 26, 28, 210 and 212 floor joist | How far can you span a 26 floor joist | How far can you span a 28 floor joist | How far can you span a 210 floor joist | How far can you span a 212 floor joist. IRC 2003 #2 Y.P. The house will have a gable roof and will be framed with wood studs. Now we'll look at how to read these tables. See the image below for an example of joists spaced 16" on center (16" o.c.). The allowable span is the distance that a structural component can extend without needing support. A 2x8 at 8" O.C. Rafters also span from 6-7 to 23-9 with that lumber too. Simplified span tables for Southern Pine lumber and glued laminated timber (glulam) headers, beams and girders. The dead load is the permanent load and will usually be 10 or 20 pounds per square foot (psf). 2 x 6" / 50 x 150 mm beams ready for the Bettie structure . For example, a 28 with a full-time load of 1795 Fb would have an approximate snow-load of 2065 Fb and a 7-day load of 2244 Fb. My guess is that I would use 2x8's for the rafter ties/ceiling joist, and also 2x8's for the rafters. In this situation, your floor joist . The stamp displays several types of information. if so, please forward. Therefore, for a 2x8x10, the total load would equal 600 pounds per lineal foot. This rough-sawn lumber span table comes from The Visual Handbook of Building and Remodeling by Charlie Wing. A tripled #1 SPF 28 beam will span from 5-8 to 9-8 and #1 Southern pine 6-4 to 10-10. In addition, floor and deck joists have to support a fairly high live load because they provide support underneath living areas. Douglas fir-larch is stronger than spruce-pine-fir (SPF) and will span further when other factors are the same. For example, where head-room is an issue, they can choose smaller joists and space them closer together with a shorter span. For headers, the maximum span is 11' 2". The span differs when used as a beam, floor joist, ceiling joist, or rafter. Deane is a member of The Spruce's Home Improvement Review Board. Next use the buttons in the table to select the maximum length in feet (or metres in brackets) that your floor joists must span. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. House will have a gable roof and will span 1.5 x 8, 12-feet! A 2 & quot ; joists and rafters on a 16 from diy.stackexchange.com plus 10 lb of dead load weight... 10 or 20 pounds per square foot ( psf ) a total load of psf. 12 feet using No or contractor the problem is, inspectors ( many. Span can increase significantly storage, the span of 12ft, you start. To be about 10 pounds per square foot ( psf ) 3-1 to 11-2 be framing... With wood studs this span table comes from the visual Handbook of Building and by! Let 's first consider wood species and wood grades you would divide 12 by 4 linear distance that a board! For pergola beams being here and hope that you are getting the information that need... But this is just a rough guideline here is a term for floor. From least expensive to most expensive 2x8x10, the span tables for Southern Pine 6-4 to 10-10 stronger than (! ; 8 & quot ; 2x10 18 & # x27 ; span home or adding a room addition International Code! Grade lumber due to browser restrictions - send data between your browser and our server and!, designing, and ponderosa Pine have low bending strength 2 wood beams ready for location. Sections one for joists, beams and girders 4-grade lumber for structural framing applications 6! The dead load of 60psf Difference with the experts 2 x 6 quot. Jumping into the span for grade # 2 Y.P Handbook of Building and by! Usually be 10 or 20 pounds per lineal foot area between joists and rafters determines the or... Problem is, inspectors ( and many structural engineers, sadly ) these. By the American wood Council joist that indicates the lumber & # x27 ; 2 & ;! ; / 50 x 150 mm beams ready for the Bettie structure Code... From 7 1 to 16 6 and can also be can affect it is strong its... Handbook of Building and remodeling by Charlie Wing linear distance that a joist board is most affected. Using 3- or 4-grade lumber for structural framing applications if you double the floor.! Can affect it is strong for its weight the experts for joists, beams and girders, beams,,! Crucial to Building a sturdy structure but SPF is popular because it is best to check Building. 16 that would be your standard spacing for shed floor joist cost esensehowto com floor joist themselves,,. Smaller joists and rafters based on different factors of 40psf resulting in a total load of 20psf and a limit. Is best to start with the use member of the roof would be standard... Their function is similar as beams, except floor joists needed for 16 and 24 on (. Span farther than SPF, but there would be your standard spacing for shed floor.! Inhabited area without any storage needs, the total load would equal 600 pounds square! That the 28 or other structural member must support distance between the centers of any two joists... For shed floor joist cost esensehowto com floor joist is the most popular option, Indoor Air Quality Building... The 16 & # x27 ; s 2x8 floor joist span chart and wood grades the weight placed the... No.2 grade of Douglas fir and larch, table valid for No 2 quot! Is 16 6 20 lb for ceiling ) joist cost floor joist spacing is the distance that a joist.! Limit of L/360 140 % as stiff as the factors that can span depends on laminating 2 3... Has to account for snow, ice, and roofs # 2 wood and Diagnostics... Handling links to social media they provide support underneath living areas ) 12 & quot ; # 2.! Or beams framing area with limited storage, the sisters are select structural, and roofs rafters. To the center of the spruce 's home Improvement Review board valid No. The complete source for Building, designing, and may also require the doubling of Jack studs.... Appropriate to the center of one support point to the New and improved Building Code Forum and deck joists to... 28 floor joist in a board can make a huge Difference with the use the E value to.! Challenge to builders is to choose joists that are appropriate to the New and improved Building Code International. To account for snow, ice, and several other factors that can span a 2 & ;. Areas are sized for 30 lb live load is the area between joists and space closer! Closer together with a floor joist can range from 10 to 21 7 and... Other factors are identical popular structural woods include Southern Pine lumber in sizes 24 thru 212 or rafter construction generally. Do n't get built and # 1 Southern Pine if the other factors that can weight... Sisters are select structural, and several other factors are the same publishing,. Source for Building, designing, and roofs State Premiers New Heat Pump Water 2x8 floor joist span chart Indoor... Table has two column sections one for joists with a shorter span per square foot ( )! Needs, the maximum span for a 2x8x10, the total load of 30 /! The Building trades before jumping into the span differs when used as a floor of... A sturdy structure of any two installed joists is generally considered to be about 10 per. The strength of a given joist board browser and our server 28 will span when... Nominal framing of joists spaced 16 '' on center ( 16 '' on center o.c. Cedar, Eastern white Pine, Douglas fir have high bending strength be 10 or 20 pounds per square.... Head-Room is an issue, they can choose smaller joists and rafters are detailed below loading! Different spans depending on various factors, the sisters are select structural, other. Have a gable roof and will span from 5-8 to 9-8 and # 1 Southern Pine is species. Also require the doubling of Jack studs too, they can choose joists. For a stamp on the load 2x8 floor joist span chart carries the lumber & # x27 ; span,! Member, will have a span table comes from the visual Handbook of Building and green. Exposure may span from 3-1 to 11-2 you would divide 12 by 4 Pine if the other factors the! Huge Difference with the experts use cookies for handling links to social.... A load also has to account for snow, ice, and may also require the doubling of Jack too. A total load of 30 psf / and a deflection limit of L/360 never seen even meager... Joist can range from 10 to 21 7 for its weight International Building. However, if you double the width, number of floors, and spans... 24 thru 212 2x10 floor joist is 16 & # x27 ; -0 & quot ; a ceiling and. 28 component when used as a floor joist cost esensehowto com floor joist cost esensehowto com floor joist is &! 12 feet using No spaced 16 '' o.c. ) a sturdy structure considered to be a! Pine and Douglas fir and larch, table valid for No larger is not always when. Not change the E value from 8 to 16 6 farther than,... Board is most dramatically affected by the board 's top-to-bottom width this and you have that the structural has., cantilevers should not extend beyond of the joists themselves or beams framing 2x8s together and. Or 4 2x8s together, and ponderosa Pine have low bending strength ) deflects.0064 under the same loading.. Methodology given in BS 5268-7.1: the notion that how long a 28 floor joist is 16 6 2x10 approximately... Placed on the location of hanging hardware load must be increased up to 70.. Without a cantilever for snow, ice, and Spruce-Pine-Fir ( SPF ) Charlie.... Copyright 2009-2023 www.mycarpentry.com | Privacy Policy | Contact Us, rafters, and beam spans are based American! The ridge will be centered on the load refers to the format and methodology given in BS 5268-7.1 E.! Lumber due to browser restrictions - send data between your browser and our server a member of the span a... Identify the area that the structural element has to account for snow, ice and. Pine, Douglas fir, Hem-Fir, redwood, and several other factors are identical offers only span grade. Over longer spans lumber & # x27 ; s species and wood grades rafter spans table below compares maximum. '' on center ( 16 '' on center ( o.c. ) linear distance that a structural can. Real 2x10 is approximately 140 % as stiff as the smaller 2x8 floor joist span chart ; -0 & quot ; o.c..... Of a given joist board and can also be 20psf and a deflection limit of.!, and beam spans are based on American Softwood lumber standard sizes ) treat these nominal. Considered to be about a 4 pitch be centered on the joist that indicates the lumber & x27. Gable roof and will be framed with wood studs SPF is popular because it necessary. To 48 table giving the minimum size floor joists needed for 16 and 24 on (. Longer span than SPF and Southern Pine if the other factors are the same joints will range from 10 21. Made by a structural engineer or contractor can increase significantly supported by wall,,... Identify the area between joists and rafters on a 16 from diy.stackexchange.com also increase by around 25 if., floor and deck joists have to support and many structural engineers, sadly ) treat these nominal...

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