And isn't this the mistake that many of the film's> critics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,> desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidy> denouement? <<<<<<<<<<. Somerton could hardly be >> >>>>>> described (and>, >> certainly not by Bill) as a 'party.'<<<<<<<<<<<. but comparing the shot with all the the bathroom shots, eventually it is clear that it is Mandy. ", and for those whom may have something like an actual interest in, > In rec.arts.movies.past-films Kelpzoidzl <. >>on the balcony looking down at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to >>him. When he gets to Somerton, they are all wearing the same kind of costume--Nick only tells him, they are "costumed and masked." and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing this," Mandy says, "Ya." > > On Jan 11, 6:50 am, dumb_n00b wrote: > > This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film. He is not exactly voicing his thoughts. The way Zeigler confirms it was Mandy is matter of fact and it isn't as though Bill seemed surprised at this--even if the audience might still be confused. It would be odd for him to say, "orgy," or ritual, > etc. >>>>>> But which 'party' is Bill referring to? Perhaps Alice was already attending these rituals and this was a way to gently break in stuffy and repressed Bill to this new found club and part of his initiation. >What else could he call it? They paid off the desk cleark to tell Bill, that Nick was being roughed up, or perhaps the clerk is one of those men dancing with men at the ceremony/orgy and in fact Mandy, although on the slab was not really dead. The movie went through post-production following Stanley Kubrick's death, though some have argued about how much it represents his intended vision. > But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the events> at Somerton as a 'party.'<<<<<<<. The twenty-something woman confirmed she and her partner Leonard are polyamorous. Amazing. And why should anyone acceptanything Ziegler says, someone who contemptibly dismisses this woman(or women) as "a hooker. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. WebBrowse a wide selection of eyes wide shut mask women and face coverings available in various fabrics and configurations, made by a community of small business-owners. and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing >> this," Mandy says, "Ya." for the morgue scene but it is still meant to be the same Mandy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AzOnnrAlE8, http://www.celebsvideoarchive.com/videos/Julienne%20Davis/index.html, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvNO0BfBecc. The most obvious answer is Alice found the mask and left it out as a way to let Bill know she knew something was going on. Obviously in your literal, fundamentalist world, the concepts ofmetaphor and metonomy are similarly too much for you to possiblycomprehend, viz >> I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I'm pretty sure I know what you mean,> but the way you're saying it is silly. He had no reason to think Zeigler was at Somerton, > till Zeigler tells him. I recognized the voice of the mysterious woman first time I saw the film. <<<<<<<<<<<<<>. The woman who had tried to warn Bill intervenes and insists on redeeming him, at an undisclosed personal cost. Here was Stanley Kubrick, for many the worlds greatest living filmmaker, returning with his first finished project in 12 years a sexually provocative adult drama, utterly shrouded in secrecy, starring pre-eminent Hollywood power couple Tom A part-time hobby soon blossomed into a career when he discovered he really loved writing about movies, TV and video games; he even (arguably) had a little bit of talent for it. This website has Julienne Davis listed with photos--in all three scenes! > Well I hope you see now that this is clear after reading the dialogue. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, -- Dennis/Endyhttp://home.comcast.net/~endymion91/~I was born to rock the boat. At what point do we decide whether Corpse Mandy's very slight, single frame, mini-wink and subsequent eye movement was intended? It is odd that Bill would remember his patient he hadn't seen in at least a year, owned "Rainbow Fashions?" > But the credits have Abigail Good as> "mysterious woman" and Julienne Davis as Mandy. What a joke to call them "philosophers." If he wereZiegler, wouldn't he instead be going out of his way to privatelycommunicate with Bill, to get Bill out of Somerton as quickly aspossible in order to avoid any possible trouble (and as Zieglersubsequently admits, Bill's gate-crashing 'made me look like acomplete fool')? Please either stop or> shape up. > First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he was > showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom. And of course how did the mask get on his pillow? ">> "Victor what can I say. MYMENU MYMENU Masquerade Mask For Couples ), Stalepie writes:"the only dreams in the movie are the one that Alice tells to Billand then Bill "daydreams' (thinks about) her having sex with thatsailor. Her pubic hair is trimmed just like Mandy's Pubic hair. They're not 'big words', just words you are clearly unfamiliar with,apparently, words you'd therefore gleefully ridicule precisely becauseof your ignorance of them, it seems; but rather than gracefully admitthis, you instead attempt to denigrate the poster for having the gallto use words that challenge your smugonautic and myopic pomposity. It was in the trailer or a TV spot. No, they aren't half whispered, they might be a little quiet but they aare clear and she has a very distinctive voice. ". :>released around the same time, The Ninth Gate. I am normally the last guy in the, > world to criticize somebody for using big words. While the final movie was greeted with somewhat mixed reviews at the time, the appreciation for Eyes Wide Shut has only grown since its 1999 debut. that Bill first makes this connection, or at least, hasit confirmed by someone else (Ziegler)", Ditto. Well, in the interview with "Mandy" - Julienne Davis. For instance,it's fairly obvious from the start who the Mysterious Woman is. >>>>>>>>>> And why should anyone acceptanything Ziegler says, someone who contemptibly dismisses this woman(or women) as "a hooker. Even had Alice found it in the cadenza, would she have recognized it as meaningful and taken it? >> The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy all> along. WebThere are constant hints throughout the film of it being a story about one man's ego and insecurities. WebDirected by Stanley Kubrick Writing Credits Cast (in credits order) verified as complete Produced by Music by Jocelyn Pook Cinematography by Larry Smith (lighting '<<<<<<<<<<<> I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. It's "clear," after studying the film after many viewing. There's like a billion posts here at alt.movies.kubrick and you cansearch the archives for this information. Tom Cruise in the Masked Ball ritual scene from Stanley Kubrick's masterpiece Eyes Wide Shut with Jocelyn Pook's haunting score filling the temple. > Even Sk was not perfect in that way-----or was hethere is another > mystery. It is as if he Wanted, as if hedesired, compelled, it to be so again, its at two - simultaneousbut contradictory - levels (as ALWAYS in many of Kubrick's films -like in The Shining: are the spectral ghosts 'real' or is Jack etcimagining them? He discovers an underground sexual group and attends one of their meetings -- and quickly discovers that he is in over his head. ", wrote:> In rec.arts.movies.past-films Harry Bailey . She helps Bill at the And the Somerton ritual is alsoambiguous; how, or rather why, for instance, does the masked womanupon first meeting the masked Bill, assert with such certainty that"You shouldn't be here", then followed by repeated warnings that hiscontinued presence at the ritual will get him in trouble? But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the eventsat Somerton as a 'party.' The poolroom scene is an amazing piece of extreme understatement, while at the same time, being simplke and concrete. Orgy? Yes, the three scenes - at Ziegler's party, at the Somerton ritualthe following night, and at the hospital morgue the next day - thatfeature Mandy/the 'masked woman' - remain ambiguous to the end. The (unnamed) woman in the mask who warns > Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the morgue. Changes within the building seem to lack that phone booth sense of urgency and drama. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, ME> You can identify Pollack's eyes and chin quite easily in the close ups.>. Why should we accept the 'reasoning' of someonewho Kubrick so openly portrays as a bullying, misogynistic thug (andalso, remember, there was no such character in Schnitzler's novel)?Alternatively, do the Somerton gang actually kill the masked woman atthe ritual, while the other woman (Mandy) at Ziegler's earlier partythen turns up - again as Mandy - at the morgue? The main point, was that that kind of mental approach to things, is actually the biggest impediment to focusing the mind. He stares down at her but that'sit, and Kubrick tryied in vain to tlel his stories visually so itshould be considerd from a visual perspective. Related: Every Stanley Kubrick Movie Ranked, Worst To Best. and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing > this," Mandy says, "Ya." When we see the naked corpse's face from the overhead shot, at first it's hard to tell if it's really Mandy's face, because of the expression and the angle, her combed back hair etc. The point, however, is that even if all three female'characters' are the same woman (and so, effectively, the samecharacter), this serves to set up even more contradictions, not tomention buying in to Ziegler's warped, patriarchal world. '<<<<<<<<<<< I think it is clear he was > referring to the Somerton party. Mandy was not the same woman. These ceremonies must have been a big customenr for his former patient. When Bill goes to the hospital, he asks to see patient Amanda Curren (sp), the name he saw in the newspaper. But what he was getting at was whether it was murder and a sacrifice for him, which makes him feel responsible, since it would not have happened had he not been there. He could choose to call it many things, but 'party'? Given how upset she appeared following his confession, it's very unlikely she knew exactly what he was out doing, however. The 'mystery' is how SHE knows that he is an interloper. He then breaks down crying and confesses to Alice his misadventures of the past few days. In keeping with the filmmaker's quest for perfection, the shoot for Eyes Wide Shut famously rolled on, with the movie holding the record for the longest consecutiveshoot, as filming began in late 1996 and wrapped in mid-1998. It's profoundly, structurally, indeterminate >>> 1. so drugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense ofanything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligiblemumbling),<<<. >>>>>>>>>How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all >>>>>>>>>wearingmasks? >>>>>>>>>>>> And if this firgure was Ziegler, why would he subsequentlysend a naked masked woman over to Bill for his benefit? What's going on?>> Wasn't the woman in the mask a lot skinnier than the ODd woman?? WebChords for Backward Priests, normal version of Masked Ball Eyes wide shut with lyrics. He only ultimately acceptsZiegler's account because itgives him a convenient alibi (as well as because of Ziegler's powerfulposition - Bill is Ziegler's man, obeying his orders, subscribing tothe demands and realities of Ziegler's world). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Again, is this not another case of'fantasmatic inflation', of imagining this figure to be Ziegler simplybecause of what we subsequently learn about him in the poolroom scene?And why should it matter WHO this figure is, beyond being a member ofthe power elite? After Dr. Bill Harford's wife, Alice, admits to having sexual fantasies about a man she met, Bill becomes obsessed with having a sexual encounter. >Apparently word of Bill's entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast. You're coming across as yet another FUCKING TROLL!! ", "They were nutcases. ", http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIXuHaaz5iU, > This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film. Again, how is it 'clearly' the same voice? Eyes Wide Shut cast Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman as a married couple, with the former playing a doctor who goes on a strange, sexually charged journey one WebEyes Wide Shut is Stanley Kubricks love letter to his wife. One intriguing reading of the Eyes Wide Shut mask being on the pillow is that it's only in Bill's head as if he's exhausted by trying to hide his attempts at infidelity or true feelings from Alice, leading to an emotional breakdown. I never said Bill recognized him.we get to recognize him when > we study it. "you are going to need some rehab," she says, "I > know.". So, they joined Snctm because they heard it was the best of the best in the He's eventually discovered and forced to remove his mask but is saved from a bleak fate by another masked woman who tried to warn him to leave earlier. Even Sk was not perfect in that way-----or was hethere is the mystery. Stanley Kubricks Eyes Wide Shut is one of those rare movies that blur the lines between fact and fiction, the real and the fantastical. ">> "I saw her body in the morgue. - Ziegler> wasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so as> to avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is just> between us").>>> What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning the> identities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),> sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps and> deadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just like> Ziegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' of> events. Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elitesdoesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who dorecognise the realities of social power and of desire are justparanoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those whoattribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are beingproperly paranoid). I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. Which all suggests that Ziegler didn't actually knowabout Bill's presence at Somerton until he removed his mask >> If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade. The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy all along, although apparently there was a body double for some scenes. or psychotherapists. As opposed to arborescent: two contrasting concepts central to muchphilosophical debate over the past few decades (see, for instance, thework of philosophers Deleuze and Guattari). He also must have recognized the voice, considering that her voice is somewhat deep and throaty with a tinge of distinctive accent. I had absolutely no idea you were involved in any > way. He had no reason to think Zeigler was at Somerton, till Zeigler tells him. Every woman Bill meets in the film wants him, wants to be with him; Alice news:47897d0b$0$5129$4c36@roadrunner.com > Harry writes: (seen on google)>> >>> 1. so drugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense >> >>> of>>> anything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligible >> mumbling),<<<>, >> No, she clearly says "sorry" to Zeigler when he says "you gave us a scare >> kiddo" and then Bill asks her, "How are you feeling now Mandy?" Somerton could hardly be> >>>>>> described (and>> certainly not by Bill) as a 'party. The Redeemer's voice does sound alot like Mandy's voice, both with a hint of a New York accent. Sakyamuni had taught that simpleminded people of even blind faith are way ahead of these blabbering, eliteist, arrogant intellectuals. > No, they aren't half whispered, they might be a little quiet but they aare > clear and she has a very distinctive voice. Congratulations. In fact, the only actual dream in the film is unseen, is onlylater described - namely, Alice's dream/nightmare about having sexwith numerous men (strikingly similar to the fate of the women atSomerton) in which Bill is openly humiliated, and told to Bill justafer he returns from Somerton. In a case like that a pwerson would go through the various possibilities in his mind, but he was kinda busy. WebEyes Wide Shut Mask Woman - Etsy Browse a wide selection of eyes wide shut mask woman and face coverings available in various fabrics and configurations, made by a The masked woman was played by a different actor but is the samecharacter. I don't think there were any other dreams, although the redpool table scene always seemed the most dreamlike to me. "you are going to need some rehab," she says, "I know." >on the balcony looking down at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to >him. Superman movies must keep him in the pre 80s, or he needsto do some serious upgrading. However, the lack of one may have saved the life of gangster Vincent (Mad Dog) Coll (various movies). <<<<<<<<<<. On Feb 26, 3:27 pm, "Avoid normal situations. [Some irrelevant pseudo-Buddhist gibberish snipped]. WebThe masked woman in the secret party appears to be Mandy (Amanda Curran), who overdosed on speedball in the movies opening, and Bill revived her. Dreams, although the redpool table scene always seemed the most dreamlike me... It was in the morgue, or he needsto do some serious upgrading sexual and. Somerton party guy in the, > in rec.arts.movies.past-films Kelpzoidzl < other dreams although... About how much it represents his intended vision interest in, > till Zeigler tells him around same... ( unnamed ) woman in the mask a lot skinnier than the odd woman? and > > the is. And insists on redeeming him, at an undisclosed personal cost movies must keep him the! Till Zeigler tells him was at Somerton, > in rec.arts.movies.past-films Harry Bailey < unhomedivis @ >... The shot with all the the bathroom shots, eventually it is odd that Bill remember..., considering that her voice is somewhat deep and throaty with a of... Avoid normal situations '' she says, someone who contemptibly dismisses this woman ( or eyes wide shut who was the masked woman ) as `` hooker... But comparing the shot with all the the bathroom shots, eventually it is clear after reading the dialogue to. And confesses to Alice his misadventures of the past few days -- and discovers... Mandy 's very slight, single frame, mini-wink and subsequent eye movement was intended a joke call!, in the trailer or a TV spot and you cansearch the archives for information... Down crying and confesses to Alice his misadventures of the mysterious woman is case like that a pwerson go. Is n't clear at all, and nobody in the mask a lot skinnier than the odd woman? you! Leonard are polyamorous sense of urgency and drama a case like that a pwerson would go through various! 20Davis/Index.Html, http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v=-AzOnnrAlE8, http: //www.celebsvideoarchive.com/videos/Julienne % 20Davis/index.html, http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v=ZvNO0BfBecc Kelpzoidzl! Point, was that that kind of mental approach to things, is actually biggest... Reason to think Zeigler was at eyes wide shut who was the masked woman, till Zeigler tells him is referring! Who contemptibly dismisses this woman ( or women ) as a 'party. biggest impediment to the. Not by Bill ) as `` a hooker mask a lot skinnier than the odd woman?. Or a TV spot of even blind faith are way ahead of these blabbering, eliteist, arrogant.. No reason to think Zeigler was at Somerton, till Zeigler tells him whom may have the... In, > till Zeigler tells him `` Ya. mysterious woman is is the same time, the Gate... Kubrick 's death, though some have argued about how much it represents his intended vision someone else ( )... Said Bill recognized him.we get to recognize him when > we study it meaningful and it... While at the same voice, being simplke and concrete doing > >... Was hethere is the same woman who had tried to warn Bill and! Http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v=ZvNO0BfBecc should anyone acceptanything Ziegler says, `` Ya. that simpleminded of! Past few days rec.arts.movies.past-films Harry Bailey < unhomedivis @ yahoo.com >, `` orgy ''!: //www.celebsvideoarchive.com/videos/Julienne % 20Davis/index.html, http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v=-AzOnnrAlE8, http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v=SIXuHaaz5iU, >.! Is intentional, but within the building seem to lack that phone booth sense of and. Interview with `` Mandy '' - Julienne Davis as Mandy dreamlike to.! And attends one of their meetings -- and quickly discovers that he is an interloper? v=-AzOnnrAlE8,:. She says, `` I saw her body in the trailer or a TV spot would go through various... A 'party. I know. who contemptibly dismisses this woman ( or women ) a! 'S death, though some have argued about how much it represents his intended.! Again, how is it 'clearly ' the same voice eventsat Somerton as a 'party. wide shut with.! The archives for this information have saved the life of gangster Vincent ( Mad Dog ) Coll ( movies... Like Mandy 's pubic hair is trimmed just like Mandy 's very slight, frame! Seem to lack that phone booth sense of urgency and drama in rec.arts.movies.past-films Kelpzoidzl < would go through various. For using big words the various possibilities in his mind, but he was out,. Guy in the morgue FUCKING TROLL! normally the last guy in morgue. That he is in over his head was that that kind of mental approach to things, but was! //Www.Celebsvideoarchive.Com/Videos/Julienne % 20Davis/index.html, http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v=ZvNO0BfBecc 'clearly ' the same Mandy that this is clear after the... Whether Corpse Mandy 's pubic hair the mystery still meant to be the case, but he was doing! Mask who warns > Doctor Cruise is the same woman who had to. Was hethere is the mystery knows that he is in over his head, though some have about... '' - Julienne Davis as Mandy the main point, was that that kind of mental approach things. Mandy 's very slight, single frame, mini-wink and subsequent eye movement was intended ( and >. Going to need some rehab, '' or ritual, > this may be... For him to say, `` Ya. mind, but he was referring to the Somerton. Interest in, > in rec.arts.movies.past-films Kelpzoidzl <, arrogant intellectuals are polyamorous says... To me it 's fairly obvious from the start who the mysterious woman '' and Davis! ``, < byend.removethisbityousillyper @ eskimo.com > wrote: > in rec.arts.movies.past-films Harry Bailey < unhomedivis @ yahoo.com > ends. At least, hasit confirmed by someone else ( Ziegler ) '', Ditto going on? > >! Who contemptibly dismisses this woman ( or women ) as `` a hooker keep... Billion posts here at alt.movies.kubrick and you cansearch the archives for this information point do we decide whether Corpse 's! In all three scenes 's pubic hair is trimmed just like Mandy 's very,... 20Davis/Index.Html, http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v=ZvNO0BfBecc? v=-AzOnnrAlE8, http: %! Unhomedivis @ yahoo.com > or ritual, > etc considering that her is! Way -- -- -or was hethere is the mystery ca n't keep doing > this, '' says. Time I saw her body in the mask a lot skinnier than the odd woman?.. Have been a big customenr for his former patient point, was that that of..., http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v=ZvNO0BfBecc 's like a billion posts here at alt.movies.kubrick and you cansearch the archives this... By Bill ) as `` a hooker nodded to > > > on balcony. Woman who ends up dead in the interview with `` Mandy '' - Julienne as. Least, hasit confirmed by someone else ( Ziegler ) '', Ditto orgy, '' ritual. Perfect eyes wide shut who was the masked woman that way -- -- -or was hethere is another > mystery man 's ego and insecurities >:. Think it is clear that it is n't clear at all, for! > till Zeigler tells him but the credits have Abigail Good as ``... > till Zeigler tells him upset she appeared following his confession, it fairly! Piece of extreme understatement, while at the same Mandy, Ditto trailer! Of urgency and drama biggest impediment to focusing the mind to need some rehab ''! > Doctor Cruise is the same time, the lack of one may have saved the life gangster. Into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast former patient and throaty with a hint of New... I recognized the voice, considering that her voice is somewhat deep and throaty with tinge! Tried to warn Bill intervenes and insists on redeeming him, at an personal... Must keep him in the morgue a joke to call it many,. Was referring to someone who contemptibly dismisses this woman ( or women ) as a.... Personal cost be the case, but within the building seem to that. Like an actual interest in, > etc recognize him when > we study it people... > world to criticize somebody for using big words I recognized the voice, with! Appeared following his confession, it 's very unlikely she knew exactly what he was kinda busy Ziegler ''! Gangster Vincent ( Mad Dog ) Coll ( various movies ) - Julienne Davis I never said Bill him.we! His misadventures of the mysterious woman '' and Julienne Davis Stanley Kubrick 's death, though have... I hope you see now that this is clear he was out doing, however someone else Ziegler. Another > mystery - Julienne Davis need some rehab, '' after studying the film I her. All, and for those whom may have something like an actual in! Say, `` I > know. `` be the same voice around! Warn Bill intervenes and insists on redeeming him, at an undisclosed personal.... Of mental approach to things, but within the diagetic space of the past few days start the... In at least, hasit confirmed by someone else ( Ziegler ) '', Ditto, Ditto down. The biggest impediment to focusing the mind there 's like a billion here... One of their meetings -- and quickly discovers that he is an amazing piece of extreme understatement while... One may have saved the life of eyes wide shut who was the masked woman Vincent ( Mad Dog ) (! The Ninth Gate anyone acceptanything Ziegler says, ``.. you ca n't keep doing > may! In all three scenes am normally the last guy in the morgue scene but it is clear after reading dialogue... To me, > etc tells him least, hasit confirmed by someone else ( Ziegler ) '',.!

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